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TozziWelding

04-17-2007, 05:17 PM

ZTFab, think we can get a sticky up with SA 200 FAQ's. Part Numbers, distributors, general info and links.

Some basic motor part numbers here.
Spark Plugs(you need 4:jester: ) Champion D-16 gap .025
Oil Filter, Fram PB50, WIX 51050, NAPA 1050, Baldwin B50
Head Gasket, Fel-Pro 7183PT
Carb kit for a Marvel carb, NAPA 2-1401

A great SA-200 Link www.weldmart.com

If we can sticky all this stuff that would be great.


slag man

04-18-2007, 09:30 PM

I second that!
Torque specifications would be good also......


rodinator1234

04-20-2007, 03:54 PM

I think that would be cool as well.

Isn't it amazing the popularity of the SA-200, especially the old one. It's almost like a cult following or something. I used to think they couldn't be that special, what's so special about them. People say they are the best welders made bla,bla. That was before I owned one. Now I drive around and look for another old one to pull out of the weeds and fix. I've had mine running for two months, and have used it at least 5 times a week after work and on Sat. I don't know how I got along with out it. I know eventually I'll run out of stuff to weld, and it'll go back under the shed, but I'll never not have one.


ZTFab

04-21-2007, 08:15 PM

Thanks for the great suggestion guys.

I'll get working on it.

- Paul


slag man

04-21-2007, 08:25 PM

I Was working a job in Baton Rouge and this pipe welder told me about the sa-200 "Red Face" and I knew I had to get one. Later, My GF on another job told me he had one at his house in TX and said if I came down, he would give it to me. The engine was locked up. Anyway, on my way to TX, I found another one on a trailer and bought it for $500.00 and brought both home. On the way home, I found another for $400.00, which I will pick up within the next month. I have the one on the trailer dismantled and will start on an engine rebuild as soon as I can. I have a strong background in auto engine repair, and 20 years of body repair and paint (Air Force). I plan to rebuild all of them and sell one or two. One thing I can say for sure, they are very well made. I hope to move into pipe welding soon but need some further instruction in getting the root down..............


TozziWelding

05-04-2007, 09:26 AM

Fan Belt; NAPA 5L480W


thomasg990

07-15-2007, 03:19 PM

Do you know thepoints setting for the SA200 . I dont know the year I just got it and I am tring to get it going .


TozziWelding

07-15-2007, 04:11 PM

Set tee points at .020 and you should be good to go. The ones in mine are still eyeball gaped and she runs fine.


thomasg990

07-15-2007, 05:23 PM

Thanks for the info on the points .That works fine I now have fire now I think the carb is poss. full of crap as it sat for about 5 years .It dosent seem to be getting gas .It turns and fires but the plugs stay dry .It did pop a few times on starting fluid .Is there anyway to tell the age ??? Thanks again...


TozziWelding

08-17-2007, 07:38 PM

I just "rebuilt" the carb on one I just picked up with 2 cans of carb cleaner. It runs and welds ok, but needs a real rebuild in the future.


boilermaker

08-18-2007, 01:12 PM

zenith fuel systems .com has all the rebuild kits for the carbs and they cover the marvel-shrieber carbs as well , there is a company that supplys all the mag parts for both american bousch and fairbanks I have orderd parts from them and they good to deal with , I beleive there called american mag.


boilermaker

08-18-2007, 01:27 PM

ok (american eletric ignition) has the mag parts plus all the manuals


Coalsmoke

09-02-2007, 02:14 PM

Good thread guys. Nothing better than a redface :D


ShieldArc

09-03-2007, 12:23 PM

Fan Belt; NAPA 5L480W
There are 2 widths of fan belts used over the yrs. The older ones used the wider belt.


ShieldArc

09-03-2007, 12:24 PM

Do you know thepoints setting for the SA200 . I dont know the year I just got it and I am tring to get it going .
All the fairbanks morse mags you set the points to .015


ShieldArc

09-03-2007, 12:30 PM

zenith fuel systems .com has all the rebuild kits for the carbs and they cover the marvel-shrieber carbs as well , there is a company that supplys all the mag parts for both american bousch and fairbanks I have orderd parts from them and they good to deal with , I beleive there called american mag.
I dont know about the bosch mags, but I recomend you use genuine Fairbanks parts for Fairbanks mags. They cost more but fit perfectly and last the longest.


ShieldArc

09-03-2007, 12:42 PM

zenith fuel systems .com has all the rebuild kits for the carbs and they cover the marvel-shrieber carbs as well , there is a company that supplys all the mag parts for both american bousch and fairbanks I have orderd parts from them and they good to deal with , I beleive there called american mag.
Be sure to set the float level on a TSX Marvel Schebler carb at 1/4" with the gasket instaled.


boilermaker

09-22-2007, 01:02 PM

oh by the way auto lite spark plugs work pretty well , not every one carrys them but they can be had .


mooseye

10-13-2007, 11:48 PM

My old sa200 had what I thought was a magneto problem, so I put the coil and ballest off a isuzu motor and ran it for a year till one day, for no apperant reason, I reconnected the mag and guess what? It works now. hmmmm?
Sweetest arc burning!


kd5inm

12-04-2007, 12:07 PM

ZTFab, think we can get a sticky up with SA 200 FAQ's. Part Numbers, distributors, general info and links.

Some basic motor part numbers here.
Spark Plugs(you need 4:jester: ) Champion D-16 gap .025
Oil Filter, Fram PB50, WIX 51050, NAPA 1050, Baldwin B50
Head Gasket, Fel-Pro 7183PT
Carb kit for a Marvel carb, NAPA 2-1401

A great SA-200 Link www.weldmart.com

If we can sticky all this stuff that would be great.
Hi all, I'm new here, just found this group. I've owned a Lincoln SA-200 for about 12 years. I've done considerable work on mine, including new rings, bearings, gaskets, brushes, etc. I also grafted a waterpump from a 1983 mazda RX-7 on to my welder. The old one had quit working/leaked when the previous owner had it, with parts hard to find, I took the old one off and put a pulley on in it's place and put a water pump off the mazda on it and drove it with a belt, it works great.
Tozzi, I don't think your parts list will work for my SA-200.
My SA-200 has a Hercules IXB5 engine in it. The casting date of the engine is 11-27-1939. It takes Champion W-20 spark plugs. The Fel-Pro gasket set is part number FS 7557 S-2. Rings for it are Sealed Power SP 617X or TRW T1387X
IXB5 firing order is 1243 spark plug gap =.025 Breaker point gap =.020 ignition timing mark is DC 1-4 on the flywheel Cylinder head torque = 40 ft lbs.
Valve seat Angle is 30 degrees valve clearance is .006 HOT for intake and .008 HOT for exhaust valves Outer minimum valve spring lbs @ inch length is 42lbs @ 1 3/16 in (no inner spring is used)
IXB5 piston clearnace is .0035, wrist pin diameter is.75 Ring end gap minimum is .015 for COMP and OIL Rod bearings shaft diameter 1.747-1.748 rod bearing clearance is .991-.0015 Rod bolt torque is 42 ft lbs. main bearings shaft diameter is 1.987-1.988 main bearing clearance is .002-.0025 and main bolt torque is 77ft lbs
IXB5 bore and stroke is 3 1/4 X 4 Displacement is 133 Cu In. Compression ratio is 6.50 HP is 46 @3200 RPM torque is 92 ft lbs @ 1800 RPM Normal oil pressure is 20 lbs oil capacity is about 5-6 quarts on my model
I have a book with specs in it for the Hercules motors and others plus I wrote down information I collected while rebuilding the engine.
This welder is so old, it doesn't have a code. It's a redface machine though. I called/go by Lincoln or local repair/parts house and they ask me for a code, I tell them it doesn't have one and then they give me this dumb look, like they don't know what to do and they act shocked that there is no code. I tell them it's a late 1939 model, then they understand....lol
The hand crank on it still works, last time I fired her up, she welded like a dream, prettiest welds I've ever seen. I replaced the brushes in the generator so that made all the difference.
Hope this info helps someone out there. I've been all through this machine. I had two others , one of which I parted out and used some parts from it for the 39 model, the other I sold along with part of the parts machine (both those machines were newer than the 39 model I have, I looked up the casting dates on the side of the engine block.

John


TozziWelding

09-18-2008, 08:37 PM

Upper hose: Gates 20606
Lower hose: Gates 20705


David R

09-18-2008, 09:04 PM

OK, we will try it.

David :)


TozziWelding

09-18-2008, 09:09 PM

Thanks Dave.


TozziWelding

10-07-2008, 06:28 PM

F162 and F163
Oil pan set:
Victor - OS20509
FelPro OS30236

Front cover set:
(included front seal)
Victor - JV894
FelPro - TCS54182

Valve cover:
Victor - VS38083
FelPro - Purchased FelPro, but I lost the number.

While we're at it, F226 (six cylinder)
Head gasket:
Victor - 986S
FelPro - 7191S

Courtesy of Denrep.


j-rod

10-10-2008, 11:01 PM

stumpfweldingsupplies.com


I did a search here and I didn't find a whole lot on the procedure for governor and magneto installation and timing a SA 200 with a Continental engine so I will tell you how I did it. I know a lot of you know how to do this with your eyes closed but some of us here might not. Feel free to set me straight if I ain't right. Well, most of us aint right:dizzy:

I have an F162 engine with a Fairbanks Morris magneto and a Peirce governor. Yours may be different. I ended up needing to change the governor. First thing is to pull the oil bath air cleaner off. I pulled the whole thing off. Behind the air cleaner is a hole in the engine plate, inside is a small pointer. A very small, hard to see pointer. You may have to clean this area to see the pointer. This is the pointer for the timing marks on the flywheel. The Lincoln Manual for my welder tells me that this engine is timed off of cylinder #1. Some are timed off of #4. Now for those that do not know the cylinders are numbered 1-2-3-4 with 1 being nearest the radiator and 4 being nearest the flywheel. So pull the spark plug out of cylinder 1. Place your finger over the hole and turn it over with the starter until it blows your finger off of the hole. You can't always get the engine to stop in the right place but it should be close. Roll the engine over by hand one way or the other and look in the timing hole to find a mark on the flywheel. You are looking for a mark that looks like this
D | C
This is Dead Center or another way to say it is top dead center. Line up the pointer with the slash between the D and the C.

Pull the bottom bolt out of the magneto and the top bolt out of the governor. This bolt goes through and threads into the magneto. Pull the magneto loose and lay it to the side if the plug wires and the kill switch wire on the side are long enough. Mine were. The slots across the driven governor gear should be in the 3 o’clock and 9 o’clock positions or horizontal. These slots are what engage the magneto impulse tangs. Now you need to verify that the driven governor gear and the drive gear are marked. There should be two gear teeth on the driven governor gear marked with a punch mark. There should be one tooth on the drive gear marked with a punch mark. This tooth should be between the two marked on the governor gear.

Once you are sure that the drive gear is marked you can remove the bottom governor bolt and pull the governor out. I got my new governor from Stumpf's (thanks Kevin) and that one had the punch marks on the gear teeth so it is easy to put on the new one making sure that the punch marks line up as they did with the old one. Use a new gasket, silicone, gasket cement or whatever works for you when you put the new governor on. You may also want to give it a few squirts of motor oil into the holes alongside the gear. This will get oil from the engine when it is running but a bit now won't hurt. Put the bottom bolt back in.

Now for the magneto. I do this a bit differently than what Lincoln’s Manual says to do. First you need to make sure that the magneto is going to fire on cylinder 1. First you need to make sure the kill switch is in the run position (if the kill switch wire is still hooked to the side of magneto. If the wire is unhooked, the mag is ON, trust me, its on). Put the number 1 cylinder spark plug wire back on the plug and prop the plug up someplace so that the plug is grounded out and you can see it spark. Twist the magneto impulse tangs clockwise (while facing the impulse end of the magneto). It will load up and snap. Watch the plug and once you see #1 plug fire, snap it three more times. Twist the tangs lightly up to the tension of the impulse. About a quarter turn and it is now ready to fire on #1 again. Note the orientation of the impulse tangs. I turn the engine backwards (counter-clockwise while facing the radiator) from Top Dead Center until tang slots in the governor gear correspond with the orientation of the magneto tangs. Put it on, making sure that the impulse tangs engage in the slot on the governor gear. Put in the top governor bolt finger tight. Put the bottom magneto bolt snug but not tight, the magneto needs to be free enough to turn by hand. (Here you need a gasket too but you will still need to be able to turn the magneto, how you do it is up to you). Turn the engine forward (clock-wise) slowly to Top Dead Center. The magneto impulse should snap at Top Dead Center, if not rotate the top of the magneto away from the engine block until the impulse snaps. Tighten the magneto bolts. Put the spark plugs and wires back in place and fire it up. If it ran before you took the governor off, it will run now.

If you turn the engine backwards (counter clock-wise) from Top Dead Center about two inches on the flywheel you will find a mark, sometimes a T or a | . This is the timing mark. If you use a timing light this is the mark you want to hit.

Here are a few things to know.

Engine turns clock-wise when facing the radiator

Firing order is 1342

Cylinders are numbered 1 through 4 beginning near the radiator and 4 near the flywheel

Rotor in the magneto turns clock-wise while facing the distributor end of the magneto. This is opposite to the direction the impulse turns.

#1 on the cap is usually the upper right hand tower, but it does not matter where it is, only the order of the wires matter.

Try not to be the path to ground when twisting the mag pulse, really you don't want to be.


And for all you old hands at this let me know it I am screwing up here.
Thanks:)


aggmechanic

02-18-2009, 12:43 AM

parts for those mags and the mags are kinda high its cheeper if you look in the right places to upgrade to a dristributer i think all f163 and 162 come with the drive you just have to knock out the plug in the center of the head. had a mag come apart on an old p&h machine(it was preaty nasty)

at least down here in georgia cheepist i could find was 600$ think the hole kit new for a dis. isnt but 300. i found mine in an old forklift i had junked out with the same eng.


NCsmith

09-14-2009, 08:10 PM

F163 manifold gasket Fel-Pro MS 8676 B


thomasg990

09-15-2009, 07:45 PM

I need some technical help .My sa-200 was welding fine then this past weekend I went to use it and it has no arc . Does anybody know what may be wrong with it ???


cajun welder

09-15-2009, 09:21 PM

When you put it on high idle does it strick an arc,or if you plug a grinder in the outlet, does it rev up. If it doesn't I'd check the exciter brushes. Make sure they are free and not stuck. If the armature is dirty, get a seating stone and pass it lightly across the armature until its clean. If all of this checks out, look at the weld brushes. If none of this works, go to AWS forum site and scroll down to Gear SA200, and I'm sure that someone be able to help you. Good luck, :waving::waving:


Nitesky

10-30-2009, 10:45 AM

Fan Belt; NAPA 5L480W

Not sure about that number. Our NAPA sells Gates belts. I like Gates cause they are pliable and sticky so they make good drivers and work well with small pulleys.

I pulled a Gates 13A 1245 off my '74 SA-200 just now. Here is something I was able to find on the NET. Might be of use.

"V-Belt, 0.53 In Top Width, Outside Length 49 In., Industry Number 13A1245
Gates 13A 1245
Dayco 17490"


Nitesky

10-30-2009, 08:37 PM

Well, I stand corrected. Our NAPA used to sell Gates brand belts. Now they have their own brand that is supplied by Gates according to the packaging.

NAPA - XL 25-9490
15/32" (12 mm) x 49-3/8" (1254 mm)


kolot

11-19-2009, 11:08 AM

Magneto Points Fairbanks Morse


kolot

11-28-2009, 12:40 PM

Fixalinc gave me this but might help others


tiensshop

01-15-2010, 05:43 AM

Thanks for the interesting and great suggestion guys.i will give it a try


Fixalinc

01-26-2010, 04:03 PM

Enter welder code number at Lincoln to get the manuals listed for it that can be downloaded. If code number is missing off your tag look on the generator barrel the code number is stamped there usually beside the starter.

http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/lecooperatorsmanualsearch.aspx

Continental manuals can be downloaded from Wisconsin Motors site.

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/partcatalog-ex.html

Weldmart has a CD can ask them for has lots of good info for SA200 and accessories on it.

http://www.weldmart.com/

I have a lot of magneto & carburetor info for SA200 and other welder engines repairing those for 30 years. PM or Email me for magneto or carburetor parts & service lists.


Rhyno

02-28-2010, 01:37 AM

Here is a little trick that will make removing the hood easier.

The factory bolts have a square head, with a "crushed" nut. I found this set up to be difficult, especially with a cramped space. I couldn't get a "full swing" with the ratchet on the bottom. It took too long to get the nuts off.

Plus the "L tabs" want to push through and fall inside of the machine.

I gapped the factory "crush" nuts and put a few small welds on both sides. I replaced the bolts with a stainless steel version that has a traditional head and washer.

This now will allow me to remove the Hood hold down bolts from the top, without removing or scratching the paint.

If you have ever removed the hood from a Lincoln 200 or 300, you will appreciate this.

-Rhyno


W.T.R.

03-07-2010, 02:46 PM

I gotta say,Im glad I found this forum.I have'nt desided if I screwed up or not.I got rid o a 06 trailblazer 302,So I could start building on a few sa-200's.Thanks to you guys,I found alot of info for my 68.There are some guys up in norman,Ok that have built a few sa's that look nice.The site is licolnbobekin@aol.com.Thanks again for all the great info.Scott


bravofab

07-26-2010, 12:21 AM

hey the continental overhaul manual is just click away in a pdf
http://www.stumpfweldingsupplies.com/files/Continental_Overhaul_Manual.pdf


kolot

11-03-2010, 05:11 PM

Thinking of upgrading or converting your charging system or alternator, check out this link http://madelectrical.com/


search24ma

12-16-2010, 04:40 AM

Please PM me the same.


goinssr

12-17-2010, 07:23 PM

What's the oil capacity for the F162/F163 and what kind of oil are you using?


goinssr

12-18-2010, 03:38 PM

For those who have not done the spin on oil filter conversion, the drop in oil filter is NAPA 1010


Fixalinc

02-17-2011, 06:41 PM

These three manuals contain a lot of useful info that hasn't always been so easy to find since Lincoln changed their website early this year. Save the manuals not just the links those could change again.

Gas engine adjustment, timing, carburetor, governor & R57 idler.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/ServiceNavigator-public/LINCOLN3/IM179.pdf

R57 idler instructions

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/ServiceNavigator-public/LINCOLN3/IM179G1.pdf

Gas engine adjustment, timing, carburetor, governor & electronic idler

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/ServiceNavigator-public/LINCOLN3/IM277.pdf


Nitesky

02-23-2011, 07:17 PM

Rad Cap -- Prestone #RSP-28 with lever pressure release. 7lb. Just fits under the radiator cap cover. The cover doesn't fit all the way down but it still latches and that is OK because now it is easier to get open without swearing.


97shadow

02-28-2011, 02:22 AM

Is there any wireing diagrams out there? Or maybe some one knows? I have 2 wires coming out the top of my generator 1 wire goes to the reostat and the other broke off and I cant see from were it came.It was welding good until it came lose, its only long enough to reach the pc board area but i dont think it came from there. I was told its a 90s sa200 but it looks older Ive looked at other sa 200 but they had 4 or 5 wires coming out of there. If that makes sense to any one, any help would be appreciated.


Will this help?


97shadow

02-28-2011, 04:20 PM

Yes it did help thanks.It went to the second B on the board piggy backed some how couldnt see were it broke must not of been on there very well, its welding nice now just need a fuse. 15 amp i guess.


Rick Rowlands

03-08-2011, 10:30 PM

I bought an SA-400 in very good condition for $800. Seems to be welding just fine. Is there any difference between an SA-400 and an SA-200 other than 2 more cylinders and 200 more welding amps?


Fixalinc

03-09-2011, 02:51 PM

Your 400 is bigger and heavier so not everyone has a truck or place to haul one. The 400 will run larger rods and stand up longer to heavy gouging a 200 was never made to do for extended periods. Six cylinder engine uses more fuel too.


mrwingnut

03-27-2011, 10:12 AM

Hey Just thought I would pass along a little info, Bills Welder Repair told me last week when I called that if I was going to fire up a SA 200 that had been sitting to take the cover from around the windings and clean out the rats nest in there before I start it. I don't know how she knew but there was one in there, exactly where she said. Saved me alot of trouble.

Just a note that the Autolite 386 plugs that someone posted about are acceptable if you are running a Dist. on your machine. Mine has a Mag. so she said that I need the D16 Champions. Last she said that they are gapped .030" I gapped mine .025" like lincoln said.

Hope this helps, lots of great info in this sticky!


mrwingnut

03-27-2011, 08:21 PM

Hey does anyone have the part numbers for the hose between the carb and oil bath air filter. I seem to have ruined mine and was thinking that it looks like something I could get a t NAPA.
Clay


RobertDoubrava

04-09-2011, 12:28 AM

In addition to the parts kd5inm posted, I found these for the Hercules IXB5:

Fel-Pro 7557S Head gasket
Fel-Pro MS8355B Exhaust-Intake manifold gasket set


tbone550

04-20-2011, 12:55 PM

Carquest carb kit for Marvel Schebler TSX 514 carb (from a 1963 SA 200): 1302
Carquest spin-on oil filter for F-163 (NAPA 1050 equivalent): 85050


Dcarlu5724

04-30-2011, 02:11 AM

What are some of these old red face Lincolns worth? I know the condition will affect the value but just generaly speaking are they worth much. And are the red faced f162 and short hood models worth more?


joestewart

07-05-2011, 04:08 PM

Hey guys, This is a great thread. Very helpful! Does anyone have the Felpro part number for the "head gasket set" or "top end gasket set" for the F162 F163? Thanks J. Stewart


tbone550

07-08-2011, 09:50 AM

If you order the Hybriweld dry air cleaner system to replace your oil bath air cleaner, and you have a Marvel-Schebler carburetor, you'll also need to find separately a reducer hose, from the 1.75" air cleaner to the 1.5" carb inlet. I found one on ebay for $9.00 shipped just now.

Hybriweld ships the kit with a straight 1.75" hose, which I guess must work with the Zenith carbs.

Joestewart, the only Fel-Pro P/N I have is for the complete gasket kit, which is FS 7183 PT.


KSellon

10-13-2011, 02:41 PM

http://www.billswelderrepair.com/files/L-Head_Overhaul.pdf

http://www.billswelderrepair.com/files/disassembly.jpg

Champion D16 spark plugs gap .030


http://www.billswelderrepair.com/SA200parts.html


KSellon

10-13-2011, 02:42 PM

walker brand carb kit for the Marvel carb is 778505


gizzardgutz

10-16-2011, 12:19 PM

F162 drop in oil filter Wix # C3P...post # 15 in the following thread.
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=42813


victory12

11-10-2011, 10:39 PM

oh by the way auto lite spark plugs work pretty well , not every one carrys them but they can be had .

My old sa200 had what I thought was a magneto problem, so I put the coil and ballest off a isuzu motor and ran it for a year till one day, for no apperant reason, I reconnected the mag and guess what? It works now. hmmmm?
Sweetest arc burning!


RobertDoubrava

01-11-2012, 01:41 AM

These parts should be availible at any decent parts house (Carquest, Napa, any old Mom 'n Pop type store), or they can usually order them:

Gates/Carquest TR22455, V belt for older SA200's with a 12 volt generator. You can also use a TR22461 if you're in a bind, you won't have much adjustment left on it though.
Standard Ignition/Carquest S10-478, point set for Fairbanks-Morse magnetos
Standard Ignition/Carquest S6-138, condenser for Fairbanks-Morse magnetos


hellhound

01-21-2012, 07:56 PM

www.stumpfweldingsupplies.com has the gaskets and assorted other parts listed with pretty decent prices


kolot

02-09-2012, 12:11 AM

Weldmart says time the 162/162 with a vacum guage, heres the link
http://weldmart.com/technical/Continentaltiming.html


kolot

02-16-2012, 12:02 PM

CV adapter is Lincoln K384, code #8963 here is the owners manual and instructions for install and testing.
http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im309.pdf


kolot

02-16-2012, 02:07 PM

Read the following, Continental 162/163 may use 2 different ring gears and therefore need 2 different starters.
119 T Ring gear meshes with a 10 T starter
96 T Ring gear meshes with a 9 T starter.


kolot

02-26-2012, 01:53 AM

Radiator cap, Murray 7007 for 5 bucks and O'reilly's
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/MCT0/7007.oap?keyword=7007


soiii

03-04-2012, 08:00 PM

Magneto Wire Set- Napa part # 700172


kolot

03-07-2012, 11:28 AM

Some starter info that pertains to my 81 SA200,

Delco Remy starter 1109437 Solenoid NAPA/ Echlin # ST124 Starter drive and clutch Delco Remy # 204 9 tooth 1" diameter O.D. gear, gear length .550", 2.970 overall length, .755 I.D. 3 spline spiral
Pulley for activator is 1.960 O.D. and gear and clutch I.D. is .470. Clutch is 5 roller and stamped SU.
My machine is an 81 and has a 133Tooth ring gear
Local starter rebuilder says this can be found on some older GM, not sure which.


kolot

03-07-2012, 10:23 PM

Thermostat, 180 deg. NAPA 530080


60redfacer

03-21-2012, 09:36 PM

PAINT CODES

Dupont paint codes for lincoln engine drives are:

pre 1991: 6334

1991 - approx. 1997: 45832

1997 to present: B8012


denrep

03-21-2012, 11:23 PM

Gaskets, Cont. F-163:

Gasket, Cylinder head - Felpro 7183 PT
Gasket, Intake manifold - McCord MS-2548
126971



Gasket, Carburetor mounting....... Taco Bell 12-PK
126981


60redfacer

03-22-2012, 09:48 PM

FRONT SEAL REPLACEMENT TIPS

When changing the front seal, I use an impact with a 1 1/2'' socket. Remove the battery, (some machines the original hand crank bracket has to be removed ) then with a 7" extension on the impact remove the bolt holding the front pulley. It's a little tight but you dont have to remove the radiator or the sheet metal.
I like to use a speedy sleeve on the snout of the pulley to correct the worn grove . I've added some part numbers. Look on www.rockauto.com they are very good priced I order from them regularly, just put the part number in the part number search box.

Front seal National 8650s
Speedy Sleeve National 99212


denrep

03-26-2012, 10:50 PM

Carburetor tag data, from late ‘70s F-163 with Marvel Schebler carburetor:

MARVEL SCHEBLER
TSX-979
M-12484-2
79


129431


Tuscany

05-02-2012, 01:58 AM

Part number for a gm one wire alternator from rockauto.com $37 + shipping direct bolt on replacement.

PURE ENERGY Part # 7127103


Tuscany

05-04-2012, 12:35 AM

I don't think it's been mentioned yet but here it goes. To save yourself the same problem of sourcing a new crank pulley cause no matter what you did yours got bent in the process of removal. Take a 5/8" nut and weld it directly to the crank pulley after removing the crank pulley nut. Then take a piece of 5/8" all thread that matches the nut threads and thread it all the way in til it bottoms out. Weld another nut on the end of that and hit it with an impact gun. Never bend another crank pulley again. Once the pulley is off cut the nut off and grind it smooth.


old jupiter

05-16-2012, 06:49 PM

(I posted this on a site for old cars first)

If you have an orphan with a waterpump that needs fixing, and you can't get a kit for it, contact Bob Lawrence in Albany, Oregon.

The waterpump on the old Continental F162 flathead four that powers my 1954 Lincoln SA200 shorthood welder needed fixing or replacing. I couldn't locate a rebuild kit, and re-man pumps were selling for $115 to $150 or more, plus frieght. I was starting to dismantle the pump to see if I could just make do with bearings and seals and home-made gaskets, when my machine-shop-owning pal said to phone Bob in Oregon. "Forty five bucks, and give me eight or nine bucks for freight," said Bob. He did my pump in one day, did a great job which included a new shaft and a mounting gasket. My shop guy says everybody he refers to Bob is happy with the work and the service.

I tried to give Bob a small tip. He wouldn't take it.

Titan Rebuilders, Inc. Water pumps, starters, alternators.
755 E Water St
Albany, OR 97321

Tel. (503) 926-6709


Alberta Farmer

06-10-2012, 09:41 PM

Anyone have a source for the Marvel TSX gaskets on their own (the one between the 2 cast halves)? Can't find a reliable source for that gasket individually. Anyone cut their own?

Bruce


thinktwicez71

06-12-2012, 07:52 PM

needed a new fuel strainer / filter with shutoff valve part for my 69 redface , went to tractor supply with the old one and got an exact copy of it , looks identical and installed perfectly.

part # 0237021 $29.99


duaneb55

06-19-2012, 08:57 PM

(I posted this on a site for old cars first)

If you have an orphan with a waterpump that needs fixing, and you can't get a kit for it, contact Bob Lawrence in Albany, Oregon.

The waterpump on the old Continental F162 flathead four that powers my 1954 Lincoln SA200 shorthood welder needed fixing or replacing. I couldn't locate a rebuild kit, and re-man pumps were selling for $115 to $150 or more, plus frieght. I was starting to dismantle the pump to see if I could just make do with bearings and seals and home-made gaskets, when my machine-shop-owning pal said to phone Bob in Oregon. "Forty five bucks, and give me eight or nine bucks for freight," said Bob. He did my pump in one day, did a great job which included a new shaft and a mounting gasket. My shop guy says everybody he refers to Bob is happy with the work and the service.

I tried to give Bob a small tip. He wouldn't take it.

Titan Rebuilders, Inc. Water pumps, starters, alternators.
755 E Water St
Albany, OR 97321

Tel. (503) 926-6709

Mr. Lawrence is top notch quality people. Great service and few his equal when it comes to being helpful. Can supply the parts for or rebuild your water pump. Does alternator and starter work too. No carburetors though.

Area code listed by old jupiter is obsolete though. Should be 541. Give him a call.


60redfacer

07-13-2012, 03:47 PM

pl747
WeldingWeb Apprentice Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 14


Re: F163 parts - online sources?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The early F163 engines used two left tanged rod bearings and two right hand tanged rod bearings. The later F163 rod bearings were all right hand tanged. They won't interchange. Also some had different thickness piston rings. Same bore but different thicknesses. Probably best to look at them and measure. I don't know where the year break was between them.


circlecranch

08-06-2012, 09:29 AM

Size-Diameter 5/16" 3/8" 7/16" 1/2" 9/16" 5/8"
Cylinder Heads ..... 35-.lO 70-75 100-110 130-140 145-155
Main Bearing Caps _. :~5-.10 70-75 85-95 110-120 I d0-150
Connecting Rods 20-25 .lo-.15 55-60 90-100 110-120
Flywheels 20-25 35-40 70-75 85-95 100-110 145-155
Manifolds 15-20 25-3(I 40-50 50-60 50-60 (;0-70
Rear Covers, Water Pumps,
Front and Rear End Plates 15-20 25-30 50-55 80-90
Oil Pans 12-16 12-16 .............................
Flywheel IIousings 15-20 25-30 50-55 80-90 115-125 _
Camshaft Nut
Thread Size
(;.I. Shafts
Forged Steel Shafts
Elastic Stop Nut w.’C.1.
or Forged Steel Shaft
¾" ?h" 1" 1%" 1 ¼"
65-7O_# 7()-8()~- 95-100:~ 125-130-~. 115-15(Igg
l, 175-180-~
*When Cam Gear Governor is used with a steel camshaft, torque cam nut to 85-90~
\
Those are the torque specs for the different bolt sizes.

Chris


circlecranch

08-06-2012, 09:36 AM

Torque Specifications for Cylinder Head
Tightening Sequence in Foot Pounds
Size - Diameter
3/8 7/16 1/2 9/16 5/8
Cylinder Heads
35-40 70-75 100-110 130-140 145-155


gizzardgutz

09-16-2012, 12:06 PM

These are threads that contain valuable information about rebuilding or maintaining the SA 200 that I think need included in the sticky thread. The only way I could figure out how to do this is to copy & paste the links to the threads here.

SA 200 Disassembly
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=19023

Removing the Exciter
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=140751&highlight=exciter+armature

Operation & OCV
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=27707

Front Main Seal & Speedy Sleeve
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=117031&highlight=200+front+seal

1 Wire Alternator & Wiring
page 2 starting post # 44
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=117031&highlight=200+front+seal

PC Board Differences
post # 31
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=38816&highlight=200+ocv

Worn Armature Commentator
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=152841&highlight=200+ocv

Pierce Governor Tear Down & Rebuild
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=136081&highlight=governor+rebuild

Hoof Governor Maintenance
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=131821&highlight=governor+rebuild

R-57 Idler Wiring
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=29002

Grind Eze Wiring
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=30413

Remote Rheostat Wiring
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=35225&highlight=sa200+remote+rheostat


duaneb55

09-16-2012, 06:56 PM

. . . and don't forget about ones such as these:

F-162/163 Water Pump Rebuild
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=32321&highlight=water+pump

Exhaust Manifold Stud Removal/Replacement
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=97111

Proper T-stat Installation
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=83131

. . . to name a few more.


gizzardgutz

09-16-2012, 07:22 PM

I knew there were more, search function doesn't get along well with me. I was lucky to find what I did! I think we all need to add whatever threads we believe are relevant, what we have here is quite a selection of great information.


57 Long Hood

11-09-2012, 10:37 PM

Do you know thepoints setting for the SA200 . I dont know the year I just got it and I am tring to get it going .

A paper cigarette pack will be work for a feeler guage in a bind...couldn't get her started the day of a test.Closed points to that after a quick clean with emery cloth and never looked at again for months.


tignot

11-25-2012, 11:26 AM

rebuilding a 64 SA 200 can anyone tell me what idler control update is the best? i'm also wondering if i should stay with oil bath or upgrade air filter system


hobohilton

11-25-2012, 01:04 PM

rebuilding a 64 SA 200 can anyone tell me what idler control update is the best? i'm also wondering if i should stay with oil bath or upgrade air filter system
----------------------------------
Changing out the original oil bath air filter will lower the re-sale value of your machine. If you upgrade the air cleaner, hang on to the original. It's worth it's weight in gold at re-sale time.


hobohilton

11-25-2012, 01:07 PM

Anyone have a source for the Marvel TSX gaskets on their own (the one between the 2 cast halves)? Can't find a reliable source for that gasket individually. Anyone cut their own?

Bruce
-----------------

Look around here. He sells individual parts.

http://www.mcdonaldcarb.com/category_s/73.htm


tignot

11-25-2012, 01:33 PM

----------------------------------
Changing out the original oil bath air filter will lower the re-sale value of your machine. If you upgrade the air cleaner, hang on to the original. It's worth it's weight in gold at re-sale time.

ok i appreciate the info, thnx alot DT


tignot

12-03-2012, 10:31 PM

does anyone have any ideas, or advice on how to and how much you con chop a sa 200 and keep the original fan? some told about 5" i think . DT


Carb kit for ZENITH carb, SA 200 green light machine. NAPA 2-1565.


OLD WELDER MECHANIC

01-07-2013, 11:52 PM

If you want "hard to find" info-all the little crap and scraps of info that nobody seems to know about or if they know they won't share with you; check out this link:

http://www.weldmart.com/main/technical/index.htm

Everything on the page is free, you can download it, print it off, and use it. This guy has the best replacement idle board on the market-2 year warranty and LED's to tell if the board is working or not.

I have stopped using "cheap" idle boards from Weldtron and cheap crap boards from that guy in Lousiana. My comebacks have gone away.

Good Luck from an Old Fart Mechanic


OLD WELDER MECHANIC

01-08-2013, 12:01 AM

pl747
WeldingWeb Apprentice Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 14


Re: F163 parts - online sources?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The early F163 engines used two left tanged rod bearings and two right hand tanged rod bearings. The later F163 rod bearings were all right hand tanged. They won't interchange. Also some had different thickness piston rings. Same bore but different thicknesses. Probably best to look at them and measure. I don't know where the year break was between them.

Partner you have a F-162 engine-not a F163. Lower end parts are getting harder and harder to find. There are no new camshafts for the welder engines (FYI-they were all cast iron and if you torque the nut to 70pounds-like the manual says-they shear off-torque them to 25pounds and use some good thread lock.

You might try Chris or Larry @ Weldmart (1-800-460-6474) www.weldmart.com
or Bill @ Bill's Welder Repair in OK.

Make sure you have the crankbearing shell in front of you and know what size you need. IF you haven't measured the crankshaft bearings and are going back with standard size. Save you money and go the Las Vegas-the money will last longer and you'll have more fun.

Get rid of that crap oil bath air cleaner-an old dirty sock with do a better job! I will not warrant and engine rebuild with the oilbath air cleaner on the engine!


kolot

02-16-2013, 11:16 AM

In post #67 I goofed on the Radiator cap, Murray 7007 is for a thermostat housing gasket.

Radiator cap is a Stant # 10206 and fits the 60's Red face machines, maybe others.


tbone550

02-16-2013, 11:31 PM

In reference to post #34 - the hand drawing showing plug wire order for the Fairbanks-Morse magneto - the mag end of this wire order is not correct for my Fairbanks-Morse mag. The drawing shows the #1 tower as being the top inner tower, but my cap is marked #1 on the top outer tower. If you hook your F-M mag up according to post #34 and you get a no-start, look closer at your cap for a "1" marking, and use that as your guide, going clockwise in a 1-3-4-2 order.

This is assuming you've timed off of cylinder #4 as the manual says to.


Alaska Marty

02-18-2013, 08:09 AM

Just found a source for modern spec, braided cloth covered wire.
http://brillman.com/store/12-gauge-c...ided-wire.html
They have a lot of other cool stuff there too.

Alaska Marty

I coppied this from another post of mine, thought it would help out in the sticky.


Just opened up the fairbanks X mag to change points & condenser, noticed I need cap and rotor too. I also noticed there was some oil in the bottom of the area where the points are, there is a gasket between the points cover and the mag body, it would be nice to get a new one of these too.

Does anyone have numbers I can use to start my search?


duaneb55

03-14-2013, 10:01 PM

Mr. Lawrence is top notch quality people. Great service and few his equal when it comes to being helpful. Can supply the parts for or rebuild your water pump. Does alternator and starter work too. No carburetors though.

Area code listed by old jupiter is obsolete though. Should be 541. Give him a call.

Update:

It was reported to me that Bob Lawrence at Titan Rebuilders has closed up shop. No idea why but a great source for F-162/163 water pump rebuild kits and rebuilds is apparently gone.

That said, here's another one that I recommend - http://www.waterpumpkit.com/home.html (John Hudson).

Complete kit runs only $49.50 and comes with the new style one piece seal. If you don't already have one, John will include a seal installation tool to assure getting it positioned on the shaft and seated in the pump housing correctly

Kit also includes 4 new rear cover screws but their bolt holes in the pump housing have to be countersunk to accept them as the bolts aren't relieved at the shank same as the originals. The proper size countersink works best but the appropriate drill bit would do the job in a pinch.

Kit impeller is a stamped steel version rather than cast, 1 new bearing retainer snap ring and the necessary cover and block gaskets round out the kit.


Inkydoggy

03-24-2013, 12:20 AM

Anyone have the firing order and timing sequence for the Continental engines that have the distributor sticking up in the middle of the flat head instead the the magneto version?

:confused:


Alberta Farmer

03-24-2013, 12:58 AM

Firing order is the same I believe, don't know about timing.

Bruce


Don D

04-21-2013, 09:19 PM

Anyone have the firing order and timing sequence for the Continental engines that have the distributor sticking up in the middle of the flat head instead the the magneto version?

:confused:

firing order 1 3 4 2 if no timing marks I piston top dead center than a just dist tobest running


duaneb55

04-21-2013, 10:18 PM

Anyone have the firing order and timing sequence for the Continental engines that have the distributor sticking up in the middle of the flat head instead the the magneto version?

:confused:

It's not cast into the cylinder head?
374401


If I remember , somebody correct me if I'm wrong. The flywheel is marked with a DC and a T you use the DC with the mag and number 4 and you use the T and number 1 with a dist. I believe thats the way it goes.
I have a prestolite dist that came out of a 58 laying here, I switched it over to a mag.
The firing order stays the same though


Fixalinc

04-22-2013, 01:00 PM

Lincoln timing instructions differ on old manual & later one.

Timing order is the same as said: 1-3-4-2 .

For welders below code 7275 use IM-179-G instructions:

From Lincoln IM-179-G Operating Manual that covers timing, carburetor, governor, & idler adjustments: All Continental engines 4 & 6 use T mark on flywheel marked by red spot for timing magneto. All engines use DC mark on flywheel for distributor ignition, time at 400-500 rpm.

Later manuals say time to #4 but early and all other engines always timed to #1. #1 cylinder is closest to the fan & radiator. #4 is by generator. #1 mark is usually on all dist caps.

How I do it: Just pull #1 plug and get it up on TDC top dead center compression stroke on #1. Then put wires on in rotation it turns CW in the timing order. Not rocket science. I'll try to scan the timing from manuals to put on here later.

Hercules QX engines use QX mark on flywheel for magneto timing. Hercules JX engines use JX mark on flywheel for magneto timing. Hercules G engines use SPARK mark with white line for magneto timing. All brands of engines 4 & 6 use DC flywheel mark for battery distributor timing.

IM-277-A later F163 Continental engine:

For later F163 with electronic idler the IM-277-A instructions say to use the T mark on flywheel for timing both magneto or distributor ignition. Yes, timing order still the same 1-3-4-2 CW rotation when looking at top of the cap. Line up the T mark in slot hole behind the air cleaner using a timing light with engine running high idle 1550 rpm.


Fixalinc

04-22-2013, 01:20 PM

Replacing rope oil seal. Best instructions I've seen anywhere on this board or others by duaneb55. Thanks Duane !!

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=268641


Fixalinc

04-22-2013, 06:53 PM

Lincoln SA200 IM179G Operators Manual covering gasoline F162 & early F163 with Vacuum R57 Idler. Gasoline Engine & Ajustment: Timing, Carburetor, Governor & Idler. Still looking for IM277A download.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im179.pdf


Fixalinc

04-22-2013, 07:22 PM

IM-117-B Instructions & Operating Manual for old Bellows Idlers:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im117.pdf


Fixalinc

04-22-2013, 07:31 PM

IM-277-A Operating Manual, (October 1990) Gasoline Engine Adjustment: Timing, Carburetor, Governor & Idler. For SA200 F163 (K6090SM & K6090SB) Welders with Electronic Idler. (For welders below Code 7275, see IM-179) Has Trouble Shooting Chart on next to last page.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im277.pdf


Fixalinc

04-22-2013, 07:40 PM

IM-179-G.1 Instructions & Parts List for R-57 Idlers

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/ServiceNavigator-public/LINCOLN3/IM179G1.pdf


Fixalinc

04-22-2013, 08:09 PM

IM-129 Lincoln, Trouble Shooting Gasoline & Diesel Engines, Hercules, Wisconsin & Continental

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/ServiceNavigator-public/LINCOLN3/IM129.pdf

Marvel Schebler Carburetor:

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/ServiceNavigator-public/LINCOLN3/IM215.pdf

Old cast iron style Zenith Carb (1957)

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/ServiceNavigator-public/LINCOLN3/IM214.pdf

Old style Zenith Carb (1959)

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/ServiceNavigator-public/LINCOLN3/IM225.pdf

Continental Engine Manual downloads: (L-Head Flat Head valves in block F162 F163, TM & TMD overhead valve later engines)

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/part_catalog/continental

Wisconsin Engine Manual download: Old 180 & 200 LincWeld

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/part_catalog/wisconsin

Wisconsin Engine Accessories: carb, magneto, special tools & other. Old 180 & 200 LincWeld

http://www.wisconsinmotors.com/part_catalog/accessory

Later Zenith Carb Info: Contact Zenith Fuel Systems or can also click my handle Fixalinc to message I am a jobber dealer for Zenith Marvel Schebler.

http://www.zenithfuelsystems.com/carb_catalog.htm


duaneb55

05-03-2013, 06:22 PM

I've seen a number of machines that someone changed only one of the main shunt coils - the open one of course - and these photos are proof of exactly why you should NOT cut corners and only change the bad one as long as you have it down.



Both coils with the insulation and inner wrap off. Open coil that prompted their replacement is on the left. Interestingly the one on the right with far more evidence of corrosion actually ohm'd out at 20ohms! ~Half the total 46ohm spec.

A little scraping away of the corrosion soon resulted in the wire breaking so how long do you think it would have lasted once pressed back into service if not replaced? :dizzy:
385111

Close up of the corroded failed winding. I didn't take any photos of the aluminum winding-to-copper lead wires connections so you'll have to take my word for it but there was absolutely no corrosion present at any of them. My point - those connections are not necessarily the "weak link" in the aluminum shunt coils.
385121

This was the "good" one!
385131



Thanks for looking and don't cut corners!


ironwings

07-29-2013, 09:39 PM

Duane: Do you have a service manual for SAE300 Code 7171 "73" or "74? I have tried to get into lincoln's site for such and have had no luck at all. Site is either down or no longer in service. Agravating. I have found many service manual sites have been removed from the web.


Pipeliner

07-29-2013, 11:27 PM

I have tried to get into lincoln's site for such and have had no luck at all. Site is either down or no longer in service.

OM

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln3/im203.pdf

Parts

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/assets/servicenavigator-public/lincoln1/p25.pdf


kolot

08-27-2013, 10:06 PM

SA 200 above code 4800 began the 12 volt charging and electrical system. Leads me to believe anything under 4800 was 6 volt.
Found this while researching my operators manual for a code 4150. Never had the Generator properly hooked up, only making 7-8 volts then it dawned on me might be a 6 volt generator. Machine is a 1961 Red/Blue face. Code linked me to IM 208 , that is where I found the breaking point for 6 and 12 volt. Can anyone confirm??


andex

08-27-2013, 11:46 PM

Kolot

6 Volt ran thru to code 4745
The first code # for 12V pos ground is 4816, which is a blue face machine.
1961 had codes
4149 Hand Crank, 4150 6 Volt Pos Grnd
4744 Hand Crank, 4745 6 Volt Pos Grnd
4815 Hand Crank, 4816 12 Volt Pos Grnd


denrep

09-07-2013, 02:13 AM

Gaskets, Cont. F-163:
Gasket, Cylinder Head - Felpro 7183 PT
Gasket, Intake Manifold - McCord MS-2548, Felpro MS8676B
Gasket, Oil Pan set - Felpro OS30236
Gasket, Valve Cover - Felpro VS5420R

Filter, Gasoline, at carburetor inlet - Purolator F10131
489211
Be prepared to pay. they're shipped all the way from China. :rolleyes:


DavisWelding

10-05-2013, 11:28 PM

Armature bearing: 208, double-sheilded.


tignot

10-29-2013, 03:21 PM

can anyone tell me what points i need for 1979 sa 200 with factory dist. ? thnx...


TozziWelding

11-03-2013, 11:09 AM

Ignition parts for a distributor ignition, all NAPA numbers
Points ECH CS88
Cap ECH RR145
Rotor ECH AL107


Fixalinc

11-04-2013, 09:20 PM

You apparently can not read or do not understand firing order. The firing for engine stays the same 1-3-4-2 no matter if you timed mag off #1 compression stroke or #4 compression stroke as Lincoln later said to do it both work fine. The FM mags original cap #1 is in top LH tower. For American Bosch and Wico #1 is top RH tower. Put wires in CW direction in firing order. You may have had a old stock FM dist cap that are marked different for the inverted (upside down) mount mag. There were also other other special marked FM J & X dist caps but if has 4 towers they are all the same just marked different. #1 cylinder is close to the radiator and #4 cylinder is by the welding generator.


TravisMartin

11-14-2013, 10:29 PM

As to the confusion on the #1 or #4 timing issue. If you think about it, there is absolutely no difference. Each cylinder in a four stroke engine fires every other revolution---#1 and #4 are exactly one crankshaft revolution apart. The same timing mark on the flywheel will work equally well for either. It doesn't matter at all which of the two you clip your timing light to. My guess would be that the later manuals suggest using #4 because it's easier to get to.


duaneb55

11-14-2013, 11:56 PM

As to the confusion on the #1 or #4 timing issue. If you think about it, there is absolutely no difference. Each cylinder in a four stroke engine fires every other revolution---#1 and #4 are exactly one crankshaft revolution apart. The same timing mark on the flywheel will work equally well for either. It doesn't matter at all which of the two you clip your timing light to. My guess would be that the later manuals suggest using #4 because it's easier to get to.
Except if you simply bring the DC mark around to the pointer and don't have #4 at TDC of its compression stroke but rather #1 at TDC or overlap between its exhaust and intake strokes and set the mag to fire for #4 guess what? You're 180 degrees out of time resulting in a no start even though there's "good spark", fuel and air which is why the manual instructs to time off #4 because that's where the cam and governor gears timing marks are visible thru the mag hole.

That said, if one knows what they're doing, they can set the mag referencing off ANY cylinder at TDC of its compression stroke.


TravisMartin

11-15-2013, 12:56 AM

Well, of course you're right about the orientation of the rotor; I inferred that we were talking about setting the timing by rotating the magneto body. Sorry if I wasn't clear; perhaps I misunderstood the question?


duaneb55

11-15-2013, 09:35 AM

But did you catch that I didn't get my explanation correct? :o :dizzy:

Should have read:
". . . and don't have #4 at TDC of its compression stroke with #1 at TDC or overlap between its exhaust and intake strokes . . .".


In other words, if the flywheel DC mark is at the pointer (as it would be as you've pointed out it would be with cylinders #1 and #4 at TDC) but #1 is on its compression stroke and the mag is set with rotor pointing at #4 cylinder wire tower per the manual, timing will be 180 degrees out resulting in a no start or even a cough for that matter.


Fixalinc

11-15-2013, 12:11 PM

Wouldn't worry about it Duane lol. It didn't include the quote to what I posted about was post #97 referred to as #34 as being wrong. He just didn't understand the firing order or had a mag cap that was marked different. Some FM mag caps had #1 on different tower for different applications as FM mags were made for many more applications besides just Continental in welders. There was also a inverted (upside down) FM mag on early Continentals as well with cap marked different too. You haven't been able to get those other caps for years now just the C800 but now and then a old or NOS one appears marked different throwing someone off. That was why I drew the chart Kolot had referred to in #34. Lincoln instruction manuals IM179G and IM277 tell how to time them off #4 compression with flywheel mark. The older shorthood manuals tell you to time it with #1 compression. No it makes no difference which you use but just don't confuse or change the engine timing order it's still the same that is what many get confused about. :laugh:


TozziWelding

12-28-2013, 03:25 PM

Ignition parts for a distributor ignition, all NAPA numbers
Points ECH CS88
Cap ECH RR145
Rotor ECH AL107

Sorry kids, those are for a forklift, not a welder. I got them they are slightly different, good thing my NAPA likes me and will take them back. I will get the correct part numbers for a Prestolite dustributor this week.


TozziWelding

12-29-2013, 05:51 PM

Revised NAPA numbers for an F163 with a Prestolite dustributor
Cap AL133
Rotor AL130
Points CS725A


redeye_joe

01-01-2014, 11:55 AM

Will that Prestolite distributor fit on a 162? Also Do you know the part number for the distributor itself?


TozziWelding

01-01-2014, 02:27 PM

Probably not, the head is different and you need a drive gear on the cam. This is how a factory distributor on an f163 is mounted.
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/TozziWelding/IMAG0657_zps0539lylc.jpg (http://s94.photobucket.com/user/TozziWelding/media/IMAG0657_zps0539lylc.jpg.html)


denrep

01-01-2014, 04:59 PM

As Tozzi thinks this through, he's gonna recall too...

As far as I've seen, all common F-Continentals are "distributor ready" engines.
A top-mounted distributor is driven via driveshaft; which driveshaft is turned by a tang on the oil-pump shaft; which tang engages a slot in the driveshaft; which the driveshaft's top of course engages the distributor.

As far as I've seen, all pumps have the drive-tang and all blocks and heads are machined to accept a driveshaft and a distributor. The driveshaft is a simple shaft with a slot cut in each end and is installed by just lowering in from the top, without engine disassembly.

On some engines there's a distributor-to-bolt clearance issue with one head bolt, but that's an easy workaround, if the engine doesn't already have the special "small headed" bolt in that location.

Distributors? There were all sorts. Personally I like Delco, which shares components with many common GM applications that sold in millions and so still enjoy cheap and ready walk-in "it's on the shelf" parts support.

Happy New Year


TozziWelding

01-01-2014, 06:00 PM

Denrep your correct, oil pump drives the distributor. I was basically trying to tell him to keep the mag and learn to love it.


denrep

01-01-2014, 06:21 PM

And Tozzi, after posting I realized that I had mixed you up with your sister, DavidR, who's reworked a ton of Continentals in a previous forklift career.

Happy New Year


TozziWelding

02-13-2014, 08:48 PM

This is a NAPA equivalent oil pressure switch, $7.50 as opposed to the $30 people get for one online.620411 Yeah I have bare feet, been in boots all damn day.

Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


gizzardgutz

02-18-2014, 09:54 PM

P-23-A Lincoln SA 200 Code Numbers Index pdf. link

FOR SOME REASON BEYOND MY EXPERTISE THIS LINK WILL NOT WORK HERE YOU'LL NEED TO GO HERE & DOWNLOAD THE FILE FROM THERE:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sa200welders/ good luck!


https://attachment.fbsbx.com/file_download.php?id=692562000765613&eid=ASttiNAq6QaWr6TSyh-b76YtFnSwvspRLt5XFPwWeZTIk0ZW_TwIS_HZyeA-ilYns_I&inline=1&ext=1392775030&hash=ASuvKa5gCxsmgDB9


gizzardgutz

02-18-2014, 10:10 PM

P-23-A Lincoln SA 200 Code Numbers Index pdf. link

FOR SOME REASON BEYOND MY EXPERTISE THIS LINK WILL NOT WORK HERE YOU'LL NEED TO GO HERE & DOWNLOAD THE FILE FROM THERE:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/sa200welders/ good luck!


https://attachment.fbsbx.com/file_download.php?id=692562000765613&eid=ASttiNAq6QaWr6TSyh-b76YtFnSwvspRLt5XFPwWeZTIk0ZW_TwIS_HZyeA-ilYns_I&inline=1&ext=1392775030&hash=ASuvKa5gCxsmgDB9


AWPMAN

02-23-2014, 10:00 AM

Water pump rebuild kit
Promatch part number 0971115 includes gaskets. Found at forklift dealer.
Great thread on here about rebuild . Pull off pully using the threaded holes and a little heat.
AWPman


Pipeliner

02-23-2014, 10:09 AM

F162 drop in canister oil filter Wix 51010 / NAPA 1010.


I was asked to post a picture of the fuel filter system I use on my SA-200s.
http://www.ecklerstrucks.com/chevy-and-gmc-truck-filter-assembly-glass-bowl-1947-1962.html


Pipeliner

03-02-2014, 09:46 PM

I was asked to post a picture of the fuel filter system I use on my SA-200s.

That's the one - thanks again!


Pipeliner

03-03-2014, 02:16 PM

It has been mentioned to clean the rat nest(s) out of the generator before attempting to start if it has been sitting for a while.

Here is a good example of what to look for:

639021

Also worthy of an honorable mention is the 15 pounds of dirt dauber nests.

The picture doesn't do it justice, but the pile is over half as tall as the can.

There's probably another 5 pounds I haven't gotten to yet.

639031


lowhy

03-04-2014, 09:09 PM

Not to mention the urine:(
Locks up the brushes in the holders :mad:
Fixing that now on my machine






It has been mentioned to clean the rat nest(s) out of the generator before attempting to start if it has been sitting for a while.

Here is a good example of what to look for:

639021

Also worthy of an honorable mention is the 15 pounds of dirt dauber nests.

The picture doesn't do it justice, but the pile is over half as tall as the can.

There's probably another 5 pounds I haven't gotten to yet.

639031


Arizona SA200

03-07-2014, 01:36 AM

644931
1960 red face rebuild that now sits on my rig. I love this old girl. First year for the red face.


Pipeliner

03-12-2014, 07:20 PM

Weight of a stock Redface SA200 with doors, battery, all fluids and 5 gallons of gas=

1300 pounds


Pipeliner

03-13-2014, 09:32 PM

I have a Marvel - Schebler TSX-514 carburetor on my SA200. The previous owner stated he had recently rebuilt it, but didn't know if he had the float set correctly. As it turns out - no it wasn't. It poured gas out of the carburetor and would overflow the oil bath air cleaner when the motor wasn't running. I got a Standard Hygrade 1302 kit today and tore into it. As it turns out, nearly every passage and jet was packed or blocked with rust or debris. It ran out at high idle great, but would spit, pop and die unless you left the choke half on. Amazing with all the junk in it that it ran that good!

654531

As for the float issue, there is a tab bent up on the float itself, where the pin / float lever goes through. The tab was bent past a 90° angle to the float arm and was hitting the top of the seat assembly not allowing the float to pivot. I bent it out at about a 45° and it works great; needle travels up and down as it should. Just thought I would mention this because I see a lot of guys asking about why gas pours out the carburetor. This tab could be hitting as it was in my case. Or the float could just not be set at the right height - 1/4" between the float and bowl cover.


guajilloweld03

09-02-2014, 01:38 PM

F-162 head gasket FePro with blue coating and red silicone on water passage area # 7183 PT
Fairbanks Morse magneto Bearing Bower BCA #7109
CarQuest FM Points # 50-3554
CarQuest FM condenser # 50-1539


guajilloweld03

09-09-2014, 08:27 PM

FelPro 7183 PT gasket is prone to leaking, if you run your fingernail on fire ring between cyl 3 and 4 and feel it is not smooth then it is prone to leaking. Was reading on another forum and a guy who repairs welders said he was having failures with this gasket.


duaneb55

09-18-2014, 07:02 PM

I just got through typing all this info over on the Rig Welders forum (can't handle .pdf files larger than 19.5kb :mad:) in answering a member's question over there and realized I'm not sure this has ever been posted here.

SA200/250 testing performance specs from the SA-200 Service Manual:

847921


Hope it helps clear things up.


dmfa200

09-27-2014, 07:16 PM

Can someone tell me what fan belt replacement I need for a blackface 70s to 80s model f-163?


duaneb55

09-27-2014, 10:34 PM

Check posts #31 & 32 of this thread.


gizzardgutz

09-27-2014, 10:38 PM

Can someone tell me what fan belt replacement I need for a blackface 70s to 80s model f-163?

I got this list from another site. I haven"t verified any of it but it is for the Greenlight (so I was told) & your belt should be the one listed.


Tolly

12-03-2014, 11:04 AM

Unless I missed it, is there a part number for Thermostat gasket? Great sticky have it saved on phone and computer!


Pipeliner

12-03-2014, 12:14 PM

unless i missed it, is there a part number for thermostat gasket? Great sticky have it saved on phone and computer!

Fel-Pro 1273


Tolly

12-04-2014, 12:02 PM

Thanks!!


gizzardgutz

01-06-2015, 07:54 PM

I found these on a Face Book group site for SA200s. Lincolns procedure for rolling the rack & some testing specs.


Insaneride

01-06-2015, 08:03 PM

Interesting Gizzard. Hard to see but I think theres timing marks somewhere. I know it supposed to change the arc some but I think a nuetral arc reduces brush wear.


adajrosho

01-08-2015, 07:27 PM

I have a problem with my 67 200, it was running really good, then I had a hose bypass issue so I replaced that and put some anti freeze in and now the slut won't fire up, my battery drains so damn fast Idk what the problem is any suggestions anyone?,


gizzardgutz

01-12-2015, 01:28 AM

Lincoln finally put a collaboration of several of the SA200 IM Instruction Manuals, other service manual info like rack adjustment & clearer wiring diagrams on their new Service Navigator section. Here is the download link to it.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/…/Servi…/LINCOLN2/SVM224A.pdf


gizzardgutz

01-14-2015, 11:41 AM

See if this link works right. Apparently the one above no longer does?

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/Assets/US/EN/ServiceNavigator2/LINCOLN2/SVM224A.pdf


gizzardgutz

01-18-2015, 07:27 PM

I've added a significant amount of links to the Maintenance Threads list. The majority are from this forum but not all of them are.

These are threads that contain valuable information about rebuilding or maintaining the SA 200

SA 200 Dis-assembly
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=19023

Digital Multi Meter & Ohming Coils
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=178071

Shunt Coil Change
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=49665
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=168831

Removing the Exciter
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=140751 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=140751&highlight=exciter+armature"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=140751&highlight=exciter+armature"highlight=exciter+armature

Operation & OCV
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=265341 (you tube video)
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=27707

Front Main Seal & Speedy Sleeve
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=117031 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=117031&highlight=200+front+seal"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=117031&highlight=200+front+seal"highlight=200+front+seal

1 Wire Alternator & Wiring
page 2 starting post # 44
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=117031 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=117031&highlight=200+front+seal"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=117031&highlight=200+front+seal"highlight=200+front+seal

PC Board Differences
post # 31
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=38816 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=38816&highlight=200+ocv"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=38816&highlight=200+ocv"highlight=200+ocv

Worn Armature Commentator
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=152841 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=152841&highlight=200+ocv"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=152841&highlight=200+ocv"highlight=200+ocv

Governor Linkage Adjustment
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=172341

Pierce Governor Tear Down & Rebuild
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=136081 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=136081&highlight=governor+rebuild"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=136081&highlight=governor+rebuild"highlight=governor+rebuild

Hoof Governor Tear Down & Rebuild
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=136581

R-57 Idler Wiring
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=29002

R-57 Idler Maintenance
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=167491
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=183781

Grind Eze Wiring
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?tid=30413

Remote Rheostat Wiring
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=301571
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=35225 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=35225&highlight=sa200+remote+rheostat"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=35225&highlight=sa200+remote+rheostat"highlight=sa200+remote+rheostat

Water Seating Brushes
http://www.aws.org/cgi-bin/mwf/topic_show.pl?pid=183600;hl=seating%20brushes

F-162 & 163 Thermostat Installation
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=83131

Water pump Rebuild
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=32321 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=32321&highlight=water+pump"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=32321&highlight=water+pump"highlight=water+pump

Exhaust Manifold Stud Removal/Replacement
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=97111

Replacing Rope Oil Seal
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=268641

Lead Reels
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=48478 HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=48478&highlight=lead+reel"& HYPERLINK "http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=48478&highlight=lead+reel"highlight=lead+reel
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=208341

Short Hood Radiator Cap Part #s
http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?t=84991

Marvel Carburetor Teardown & Cleaning
http://www.johnsoldiron.com/M_S_TSX_Carb_part_2.html

B&W Parts SA 200 Maintenance Videos
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUL84ckCJ9SVSTwxLNfMqmA/videos

Fairbanks Morse-Magneto Fundamentals-Menu
A 64 page book showing how to & which tools for testing, fixing & rebuilding our magneto
http://www.oldengine.org/members/diesel/magnetos/MagFmBook.htm


weldermike

01-18-2015, 07:37 PM

Gizzards the man! Always appreciate your homework/input. It comes from experience and I know it and appreciate it bud.


gizzardgutz

01-18-2015, 08:14 PM

Thanks for the kind words Mike! I've been on this forum for approx. 6 yrs. I had welded with various SA 200s for probably 30+ yrs. & knew virtually nothing about them except how to change the oil. I had heard the terms polarity, OCVs, rolling the rack, etc. Sure I could replace the battery, alternator & water pump. This forum made a huge difference in my knowledge base on these & other machines & even the welding end of it. I did put in a lot of time to find the information in that list, but I did it for me, so I could learn. When it helped me so much I realized I owed this forum the info I had put together as a Thank You for the help so gladly given & as a way for me to contribute to the collective.


duaneb55

04-17-2015, 12:03 PM

If it or similar hasn't been posted yet, this the wide belt I use for adjustable W/P pulley with alternator/generator equipped machines.


duaneb55

06-18-2015, 04:08 PM

Correction on the above post - the B44 works with alternator applications and is slightly too long for generator equipped machines.

Here are the numbers that have worked for me:

1142481


enikolich

07-28-2015, 12:23 PM

I am new to this site. I landed here looking for some information on my Continental motor. I am an amateur weldor, but my son is in his second year welding for a living.

Anyway, thought I'd share this - I had issues finding replacement parts for my water pump and ended up sending it to this place: http://water-pump-rebuilders.com/. He had never done one of these pumps before and returned it with modern mechanical seals and a transferable warranty.


mcgraw72797

08-06-2015, 05:37 PM

Where is the SA-200 sticky?


kuzineddie

11-07-2015, 04:25 PM

Here is the Napa part number for the Shorthood (small fill neck) gas cap.


Dr Gas

11-16-2015, 09:33 AM

Are you sure?


duaneb55

01-25-2016, 01:47 PM

At the suggestion of member Insaneride, I've copied here the step-by-step SA200 idler board test method taken from another SA200 related thread that I use for testing suspect boards and/or following any board repair.

I use a 115VAC-to-12VDC, 3A Radio Shack power supply but any 12VDC power source will do.

1) Connect 12VDC(-) to one of the mounting holes (use a machine screw and nut to connect).
2) Connect one lead of a 12VDC light bulb to the "W" terminal.
3) Connect 12VDC(+) to the other lead of the 12VDC light bulb.
4) Apply 12VDC(+) to "Y" terminal.
5) Light bulb should light in 12-15 seconds.
6) Apply 12VDC(-) to "R" (red wire) and light should go out.
7) To test board mounted reed switch, run 12VDC load thru (NOT to) "B" terminals. I use my 18V cordless drill with jumper leads from battery to drill motor terminals. Pull the trigger to apply load.
a. (+) from power source to one :B: terminal
b. from other "B" terminal to one side of load
c. (-) from power source to other side of load
d. light should go out when load is connected


OK59'Pipeline

02-15-2016, 02:56 PM

Illinois Appellate Court: Section 2-1401 Cannot be Used to Dismiss a Complaint or Petition

By Charlie Ingrassia
Law Clerk to Hon. Susan F. Hutchinson, Illinois Appellate Court, Second District

Section 2-1401 of the Code of Civil Procedure (the Code) (735 ILCS 5/2-1401 (West 2010)) provides relief from final orders and judgments more than 30 days after the trial court enters such an order. In In re Commitment of DeSilvestro, 2013 IL App (3d) 120563, the Illinois Appellate Court clarified that section 2-1401 provides relief only from final judgments and orders, and the statutory provision could not be used to dismiss a complaint or petition.

In DeSilvestro, the respondent, in 2004, negotiated a guilty plea to four counts of aggravated criminal sexual assault in exchange for four concurrent sentences of seven years' imprisonment. In 2009, the respondent was released on mandatory supervised release (MSR). Later that year, the State obtained a warrant for the respondent's arrest after he allegedly violated terms of his MSR. In 2010, with the respondent back in custody, the State filed a petition to detain him pursuant to the Sexually Violent Persons Commitment Act (the Act) (725 ILCS 207/1 (West 2010)). Following a probable cause hearing, the trial court entered an order finding probable cause for the Department of Human Services to detain the respondent.  

In 2011, nearly a year later, the respondent filed a motion to dismiss pursuant to section 2-619 of the Code (735 ILCS 5/2-619 (West 2010)), claiming that the State lacked personal jurisdiction over him as a result of having failed to properly serve him with process of the commitment proceedings. Four months later, and while his section 2-619 motion to dismiss was still pending, the respondent filed an additional motion to dismiss, claiming that the State lacked subject matter jurisdiction. In July 2011, the trial court denied both motions; and in December 2011, it denied the respondent's motion to reconsider.

In March 2012, the respondent filed a “motion to dismiss pursuant to section 2- 1401(f)” of the Code, which reiterated many of the allegations contained in his motion to dismiss for lack of subject matter jurisdiction. In June 2012, the trial court denied the respondent's 2-1401 motion. The respondent appealed, claiming that the trial court erred in denying that motion.

The Illinois Appellate Court, Third District, dismissed the respondent's appeal for lack of jurisdiction. The reviewing court quoted the statutory language provided in section 2-1401 and concluded that the provision provided relief from final judgments and orders. The court concluded, "[w]e can find no authority to support [the] respondent’s contention that section 2-1401 provides a procedural mechanism to dismiss a petition or a complaint."

The reviewing court, relying on People v. Vincent, 226 Ill. 2d 1, 7 (2007), further emphasized that a petition seeking relief under section 2-1401 must be filed in the same proceeding, even though the petition is not a continuation of the prior proceeding. In this case, the court emphasized, a final order had not been entered because a detention order was not a final order. Rather, the respondent's section 2-1401 motion attacked the sentencing order entered in his prior criminal case, which was a different proceeding. The court emphasized that "the [r]espondent cannot use a section 2-1401 petition filed in this case to seek relief from a final order in another case." Finally, the reviewing court noted that the denial of a motion to dismiss was not a final order, and labeling a motion to dismiss as a section 2-1401 motion "did not convert the motion to a section 2-1401 petition."

Justice Carter specially concurred, noting that this appeal should have been dismissed pursuant to Illinois Supreme Court Rule 304(b) (eff. Feb. 26, 2010) and EMC Mortgage Corp. v. Kemp, 2012 IL 113419, ¶ 13, where the state's high court held that the denial of an improperly filed section 2-1401 petition was not appealable under Rule 304(b).

Recommended Citation: Charlie Ingrassia, Illinois Appellate Court: Section 2-1401 Cannot be Used to Dismiss a Complaint or Petition, The Brief, (April 16, 2014), http://applawyers-thebrief.blogspot.com/2014/04/illinois-appellate-court-section-2-1401.html.

DISCLAIMER: The Appellate Lawyers Association does not provide legal services or legal advice. Discussions of legal principles and authority, including, but not limited to, constitutional provisions, statutes, legislative enactments, court rules, case law, and common-law doctrines are for informational purposes only and do not constitute legal advice.

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